The Joy of Spreadsheeting

spreadsheet

This is not gonna be a fun post for me because, well, I goofed. I made some seemingly innocuous changes to the spreadsheet a while ago that caused it to be less accurate than it normally is (which, for the record, has never been anywhere near 100%), and it’s taken me a while to figure out that there was a problem and then finally fix it.

The short answer is that the spreadsheet has been overvaluing crit since 7.1 was released. In this updated version, you’ll see stat weights that look way off. Specifically, crit is much lower and haste is much higher; this is due to several reasons. The first is the previously mentioned changes that caused crit to be inflated. Second, I had been manually reducing the weight of haste by 10% because of its adverse relationship with mana; I’m no longer doing that. Last, stat weights are going back to what appear to be much more reasonable values, but everyone has been under the impression that crit was so powerful, so they have gravitated toward gear with lots and lots of crit. This makes crit look weaker than you would expect simply by virtue of having so much of it and so little of everything else. By comparison, the other stats will be higher than expected until stat distribution evens out a little more.

Is the World Ending?!

Even though it’s very likely that some of you will actually see haste as being your highest valued stat and crit near the bottom, this doesn’t mean that our stat priorities have really changed. I’ll concede that haste has more value than I originally thought at the beginning of the expansion (partly why I’m getting rid of the 10% reduction), but that’s mostly due to our capability to take incredibly mana-efficient talents without hindering our throughput too much. Crit is still our best overall stat, it just might not appear that way because you have so much of it.

To illustrate this point, I want to show two graphs. The first graph shows the relative value of each stat when they’re all balanced equally:

chrome_2017-01-16_12-54-35
Relative value of secondary stats compared to each other without factoring in Intellect. Versatility is chosen as a baseline. Each stat starts at 6000 and steadily increases by 1000.

This graph shows our stat priorities. Crit is much higher before the 30% (25% with 2-piece Tier 19) breakpoint but remains the best until the 50% (45% with 2-piece Tier 19) softcap, where it plummets off the chart. Haste is slightly higher than mastery because I’ve removed the 10% reduction.

This second graph shows the relative value of each stat when you “stack” only crit and haste:

chrome_2017-01-16_13-04-06
Haste is chosen as a baseline. Each stat starts at 6000 but only crit and haste steadily increase by 1000.

Here, crit and haste have the same trends, but the value of mastery and versatility are constantly increasing rather than staying relatively even, like in the first graph. Even though some stats are better overall, focusing heavily on certain stats and disregarding others leads to this situation where lesser stats become more valuable. To an extent, this is what most of us are likely seeing on the spreadsheet.

What’s the Moral of This Story?

I may have lead some of you to believe that crit was more powerful than it should have been, and for that, I’m sorry. However, as I hope to have now demonstrated to you, a balance of secondary stats isn’t terrible for you. The fact that the spreadsheet is showing crit as worse than other stats isn’t because I’ve completely altered how everything works and crit is now a bad stat for us. You probably just have a ton of crit and very little of other stats.

I’ve never explicitly said that crit should be stacked or that any other stat should be avoided, but I can see how it might seem that way. As I’ve maintained in the guide here and on Wowhead, item level is typically the best indicator of an upgrade, at least when it comes to items that aren’t relics or trinkets. I don’t mean to say that an item level increase will always be an upgrade; that’s definitely not true. But a general rule of taking the highest item level regardless of the secondary stats is not going to put you at any meaningful disadvantage and is much less complicated. Nighthold is coming out soon, so you’ll have plenty of opportunity to shuffle around stats with new gear.


So, What Actually Happened?

For those of you still with me, I’d like to explain where I went wrong if for no other reason than to share with you part of the nihilistic nature of trying to model healing on a spreadsheet. Fair warning: the rest of this is probably not very interesting to most of you.

First, I should explain the basic premise behind my model. Almost every ability with a small cooldown (less than 30 seconds) is an increase to both healing per mana and healing per second over spells that don’t have a cooldown, like Flash of Light or Holy Light (in this case, an Infusion-of-Light-buffed Flash of Light or Holy Light is categorized as a cooldown because it’s tied to Holy Shock). Obviously, that means we want to use them any time we have the opportunity and then use the rest of the time on the “filler” spells like Holy Light and Flash of Light.

My model calculates the amount of time it will take to cast all of those smaller cooldown abilities in one minute and then relegates the rest of the time to filler heals. Put as a formula:

Filler time = (60 – (n * GCD)); where n is the number of cooldowns cast in one minute, and each cooldown takes the same amount of time to cast as the global cooldown (GCD).

To figure out how many times we cast Flash of Light in a minute, I divide that filler time by the cast time of Flash of Light (which is always the same as the GCD). The problem came when I realized that most Holy Paladins weren’t actually casting filler spells as often as my model predicted. The casts were closer to one-third as often as I predicted, but the cooldowns were being used almost exactly as often as I predicted. To remedy this, I simply multiplied the number of filler spells by 0.3.

For most talent combinations, my average casts per minute were on target with what logs were showing. However, adding more cooldowns through talents creates issues. Adding more cooldowns artificially increases the total time spent casting rather than keeping it the same. I think this is more easily explained through an example. Assume that I have 0% haste (just to make things clean), so the GCD is 1.5 seconds, my talent combination is using a total of 30 cooldowns (n) in one minute, and all filler spells are Flash of Light (1.5s cast time).

Filler time = (60 – (30 * 1.5))
Filler time = (60 – 45)

Filler time = 15 seconds
Number of Flash of Lights = 15 / 1.5 = 10

But remember, we don’t cast Flash of Light that often, so that final number is multiplied by 0.3, resulting in 3 casts of Flash of Light per minute. This gives us a total of 33 casts per minute (30 cooldowns + 3 Flash of Lights).

Now, let’s assume everything else is exactly the same except that we want to add one more cooldown per minute (n = 31). In reality, we would drop one cast of Flash of Light to make room for this additional cooldown, but that’s not what was really happening.

Filler time = (60 – (31 * 1.5))
Filler time  = (60 – 46.5)

Filler time = 13.5 seconds
Number of Flash of Lights = 13.5 / 1.5 = 9

We see that we’ve dropped a single cast of Flash of Light, but we still have to multiply by 0.3, giving us 2.7 casts of Flash of Light per minute. Then the total becomes 33.7 casts per minute (31 cooldowns + 2.7 Flash of Lights). By adding one cooldown, we’ve gained 0.7 casts per minute, or 1.05 extra seconds of casting time.

None of this is all that complicated on the surface, but the problem was that this was buried in lots of other arduous calculations and wasn’t immediately apparent. I honestly can’t explain to you why this made crit so much more valuable than any other stat. I have guesses, but I’m still not entirely sure. Regardless, the problem went a little further.

My attempt to solve this issue was to create “dead globals”. Essentially, these are times when you might miss casting a heal due to movement, latency, or casting some other non-healing ability. Because most of our non-filler abilities are instant, we can still cast them on the move, so our filler spells are usually sacrificed as a result (this is why Flash of Light casts were so wrongly predicted by my model, but the cooldowns weren’t). Unfortunately, I was under the impression that these dead globals should be dynamically adjusted based on your talents. I don’t know why I assumed talents would have an effect on this; Crusader Strike from Crusader’s Might and Judgment from Judgment of Light are both already classified as one of the cooldown spells, so there’s not really any reason for talents to change how often you miss casts.

For the past few months, there’s been a cell for these dead globals that was changing based on how many cooldowns you were using. This was obviously wrong and has since been changed, but the result is much less value for crit. I knew that there was a problem and that this solution wasn’t correct, but I didn’t realize how much of an effect it was having.

So, my bad.

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73 thoughts on “The Joy of Spreadsheeting

  1. Behnson January 17, 2017 / 11:35 am

    Wow, that was an interesting read. And never mind mind this mistake. Your page has made me competing for the spot of No. 1 healer in our raid and I only picked up healing this xpac. Maybe I will be even better now 😀

    Thanks a lot for the work you put into this stuff. It makes playing Holy so much easier 🙂

    Like

    • Dreamguard January 17, 2017 / 4:49 pm

      You’re welcome! 🙂

      I enjoy being able to help.

      Like

      • Blake Garcia February 15, 2017 / 3:05 pm

        Are there going to be more articles/updates to the website?

        Like

      • Dreamguard February 15, 2017 / 9:39 pm

        Are you looking for something specific?

        Like

  2. Krol January 17, 2017 / 1:24 pm

    Thx for your work Dreamguard 🙂

    Like

  3. oodadrogon January 17, 2017 / 5:38 pm

    Hmm. Good read, love the sheet. So is there a “softcap” for haste now? seem haste has jump way up the list. Based on my stats that is. either Thanks for the Hard work and Good luck in Nighthold.

    Like

    • Dreamguard January 17, 2017 / 7:13 pm

      Not that I’m aware of. You’ll *probably* see haste fall back to normal levels if you get more of it. It’s hard to say right now how things will pan out once people readjust stats, but I’d imagine it’s not going to make any major swings to any other stat than crit.

      Thanks, you too!

      Like

  4. cremor January 17, 2017 / 5:39 pm

    Thanks for the update and the explanation, really enjoyed reading it.

    If you have some time, could you please explain why Haste and Mastery are much more valuable with Devotion Aura than with Aura of Mercy?

    Like

    • Dreamguard January 17, 2017 / 7:20 pm

      Sure!

      Haste and mastery have no effect on Aura of Mercy’s healing. It’s always going to tick every second regardless of haste, and for whatever reason, even when you use Aura Mastery, Aura of Mercy will never have any benefit from mastery.

      This means that a larger portion of our healing comes from a particular source that has no benefit from mastery or haste. When you swap to Devo, more of your overall healing is affected by haste and mastery, so the weights are higher.

      I’d love to be able to have more reliable numbers for Devo and Sac, but they’re too tricky for a spreadsheet. Devo relies on the damage patterns of a fight and Sac relies on having a realistic simulation rather than a model.

      Like

      • iodk January 23, 2017 / 7:26 pm

        So just to be clear, Crit, Vers and Int affect the ticks of Aura of Mercy right?

        Like

  5. victor ljungqvist January 17, 2017 / 7:08 pm

    Your bis list on wowhead for Nighthold puts us on 39% crit with leg shoulders and ring. Would you swap out rings and neck then to remove crit and get 25%?

    Like

    • Dreamguard January 17, 2017 / 7:16 pm

      The recommended gear list on Wowhead is more something I’m asked to do and not necessarily something I try to advertise too much. I don’t think a best-in-slot list is all that helpful with how sockets/titanforge/leech RNG works.

      As for crit values, as long as you’re between the 30% breakpoint and 50% softcap, you’re probably fine. I wouldn’t worry too much about the specific percents if you’re in that range.

      Like

      • victor ljungqvist January 17, 2017 / 7:25 pm

        Even with tier set?

        Great job btw 🙂 thanks for all the work really nice to read 🙂

        Like

      • Dreamguard January 17, 2017 / 7:33 pm

        No, sorry, I just meant between the two values in general. They do change to 25% and 45% with Tier 19.

        And you’re welcome! 🙂

        Like

  6. Drisu January 17, 2017 / 11:38 pm

    Fisr of all thanks for this spreadshit 😀 Good job man, rly good !
    Whats your recomendations of getting T19 pieces ? I assume that cloak is not worth getting, while having kara cloak. But i think 2p bonus is a must have, to get more other stats than crit, but i’m wondering about 4p bonus. Any suggestions ? I think its a big boost acctually.
    Take care !

    Like

  7. spudmaster January 18, 2017 / 2:02 am

    Is something wrong on my end or are we unable to make a copy of this new spreadsheet? Or did I just miss something about that in the post?

    Like

    • Dreamguard January 18, 2017 / 2:34 am

      That happens where there are too many people looking at it at once. I can’t really do much about it other than ask people to make a copy and close the original.

      Like

      • Parkwayy January 20, 2017 / 5:36 pm

        Thoughts on maybe have 1-2 mirrors as links? Most of the time in Discord people just end up sharing a link to their own copy as a fix.

        Like

  8. Mendwater January 18, 2017 / 3:30 pm

    Assuming we need to be at 30%(25% with 2-pieces set) of crit and if we in that bracket other stats are more valuable?
    So, my hpally is currently at 38% of crit, I should reenchant my gear to other stat and use other stat food?

    Like

    • Dreamguard January 18, 2017 / 4:59 pm

      Not necessarily. Other stats might be stronger if most of your gear has crit on it, but it isn’t really about the specific percent of crit you have, more just the ratio.

      I would check the spreadsheet, but don’t make bulk changes. Try swapping a few pieces at a time and then reentering your stats in the spreadsheet.

      Like

      • Mendwater January 19, 2017 / 11:44 am

        I get some new gear from nh reenter stats to spreadsheet and honestly I get weird weights:
        Intellect 1.00
        Critical Strike 0.83
        Haste 0.92
        Mastery 0.81
        Versatility 0.82
        Leech 1.17

        Int > Haste > Crit > Versa >= Mastery

        It’s ok? When I check oder hpallys(with better performance) on warcraftlogs they use still:
        Int >Crit >Mastery >Versa >Haste

        And I’m a bit confused what to do.

        Like

  9. KeeningLord January 18, 2017 / 5:23 pm

    I’m new to WoW, so all of this is mostly Greek to me, but it all still helps point me in the right direction. thanks for all the help, on my behalf as well as all my party members that need healing.

    Like

  10. Holymoly January 18, 2017 / 9:01 pm

    Hey Dreamguard,

    I have a question which is completely off topic to this thread, but I need some help. I see everywhere that holy paladins don’t have to worry about mana at all because it never ends. However, I am having a lot of issues with it – I am oom when all the other healers are at like 60% mana. So I am not sure if I am just wasting my mana or other healers are not doing anything at all. What is the optimal way to save your mana?

    Thanks.

    Like

    • Dreamguard January 19, 2017 / 12:31 am

      There’s a lot of reasons this could be the case, but likely issues are talents or not using your mana-efficient cooldowns enough. Spamming Holy Light or Flash of Light instead of using Light of Dawn, Holy Shock, Bestow Faith, Judgment, or Holy Prism costs more mana and does less healing.

      Also, Divine Purpose and Crusader’s Might can help a lot if you’re having mana issues.

      Like

    • Xiphereal January 21, 2017 / 1:29 am

      I had the same problem that you a few iLvl down, so do one of my guild mates. I need to ask you: are you around 845-868? In that case it’s almost sure that you need to take care about your mana.

      As Dreamguard said, optimize your CDs and use choose correctly your talents: Holy Avenger is a heavily mana-spender, so never take it if you have mana problems, instead use Divine porpuse.

      Another tip is to not to heal at 85% HP with heavy spells as Holy Shock, better to use Bestow Faith, HL or FoL. Always know how much your spells heals, and reduce at minimun your overheal.

      As a last advice, I’d say to have some mana potion (leytorrent potion) as it will help you at 0-5% mana time.

      Like

      • Holymoly January 24, 2017 / 5:54 pm

        Thanks both of you for your replies, I will definitely reconsider my talent choices 🙂

        Like

  11. Bexicle January 18, 2017 / 11:35 pm

    Thank you so much for this spreadhseet – it truly is a thing of beauty and helpfulness!

    Like

  12. Khanso January 19, 2017 / 7:05 am

    Is the spreadsheet correct in that Leech is more valuable than Intellect (or any other stat for that matter)?

    Like

      • Khanso January 19, 2017 / 9:07 am

        Thanks mate. Love your work.

        Like

      • Xiphereal January 21, 2017 / 1:32 am

        But if leech is doing a big amount of overhealing due to the reason you’re wearing Prydaz? Wouln’t it be a thing to have in mind?

        Thanks for your work, helped a lot!

        Like

  13. Galathor January 19, 2017 / 9:54 am

    Does this change anything on Drape of Shame still being our BIS cloak regardless of ilvl and NH cloaks?

    Like

    • Dreamguard January 19, 2017 / 5:06 pm

      I don’t believe so. I haven’t tested that with every possible talent set or stat distribution, but I’m fairly sure it’s still the best cloak we can have.

      Maraad’s Dying Breath might be a slightly bigger increase for a cloak, but it’s better to use your legendary items on a different slot if you have them.

      Like

  14. Arthon January 19, 2017 / 1:02 pm

    Not going to say anything new, Dreamguard… But thank you for you work. Your spreadsheet has been extremely valuable for us. This “mistake” hasn’t affected me personally (my stats are valued roughly the same apart from haste, but no huge impact), but I’m sure if there are any adjustments to be made, those will be done smoothly now that a new raided has started. So again, thank you.

    I do have a question. Drape of Shame. How is that cloak valued, can you go into this a bit?. I have been lucky to have one of 860 item level with a socket, but I have no idea what’s the threshold to justify a replacement.

    Like

    • Dreamguard January 19, 2017 / 5:08 pm

      I need to look into Drape of Shame a little bit more, but it looks like it’s still the best option for a cloak for us.

      Like

  15. Psiku January 20, 2017 / 8:43 am

    Hello Dreamguard,

    thanks a lot for your work! youre doing a great work!

    But dont mind if i ask you a question:
    why do you prioritize leech that much? could you please get into it a bit? does the healing work with our leggi shoulders?

    im asking because the sheet told me to drop a 885 crit / mastery chest vor a 860 one with haste, versa and leech..and that feels kind of awkward

    Thanks in advance!

    Like

    • Dreamguard January 20, 2017 / 4:49 pm

      Leech has always been good, it’s just so rare that I hadn’t actually added it as it’s own weight until now.

      There’s not really much to say other than the reason it’s so high is because it gives you that much more healing per point. It’s a good stat 🙂

      Like

      • Psiku January 20, 2017 / 5:50 pm

        thanks for the quick response!

        as far as i understand, it only heals your self, so do you know if the healing is tranferred to my beacons due to the leggi shoulders?

        Like

    • Dreamguard January 20, 2017 / 4:53 pm

      No thank you.

      The honest answer is that I don’t like how it looks. I’ve toyed with adding a pawn string generator to the sheet before and I just don’t like how I have to rearrange sections.

      It may sound dumb, but I don’t think it’s that difficult to manually enter the stats into pawn anyway. You’re more than welcome to add that to your own sheet if you’d like.

      Liked by 1 person

  16. Parkwayy January 20, 2017 / 5:46 pm

    Does this sound like a valid plan;

    Put on basically the highest ilvl gearset you have as a baseline, get some stat numbers, and then try to tinker with some possible lower ilvl “upgrade” pieces, or basically my lower level stuff with high crit values.

    I can’t really ever get back to a point where crit wins out, even with carefully adjusting the misc settings on the google doc, but for whatever reason it feels bad to end up with like 35% crit D:

    Most of the stats are looking really close, so I just manually mark my pawn values like .1 apart, but with crit on top, for my sanity I think.

    Like

    • Dreamguard January 21, 2017 / 9:23 am

      As long as your highest ilvl gear isn’t considerably lower than gear you have available, I wouldn’t sweat it. “Considerably lower” is subjective, and whatever point that is would probably be up to you, but I think it’s fine to have lower crit as long as it’s above 30% (25%).

      There’s definitely an argument for the reliability of critting with Holy Shock and then using Infusion of Light, but the spreadsheet is specifically designed to figure out which stats will give you the most benefit; how much you want to rely on that is entirely up to you.

      Overall, I think the small changes to stat weights and fussing over gear is an incredibly small portion of what makes someone a good raider or, more specifically, a good Holy Paladin, so I don’t worry about it too much. I enjoying doing the work and figuring out the problems associated with the spreadsheet. I don’t care so much about min-maxing my gear based on the outcomes. 🙂

      Like

  17. Teresa Valk January 24, 2017 / 12:27 am

    First off thank u for all your hard work for the Holy Paladin community:)

    Now get ready to throw tomatoes, lol……. I know u get asked a lot about the Drape of Shame cloak (from kara). To my understanding the Drape of Shame cloak is the same as your 2 piece. If I have my 2 piece and a higher ilvl cloak (different than Drape) would it be better to use it instead of Shame? Make sense?

    Like

    • Behnson January 25, 2017 / 9:28 am

      Hey, although I am not at all a pro at this spreadsheet. I think the two effects work differently, since the Set-Bonus does increase your crit chance of Holy Shock by a flat 5%, but the Drape actually influences the effectivity of all your crits.

      I think it also depends on your stat distribution. E.g. if you have below 30% crit, I would say that you should go for the 2-Set Bonus to reach the soft cap. If you have a considerably higher amount of crit without the Set-Bonus the drape would be my choice.

      After all, I always open two versions of the spread sheet and compare the impact of the changes. If it is just between 1-5k HPS, I usually go with my gut feeling 😀

      Like

    • Krol January 25, 2017 / 9:54 am

      Drape of Shame adds 10% Heal of Crits (like Diablo 3 for Crit Damage) : if you heal for 1000 without, you’ll heal for 1100 with it. (If I’m correct)

      Like

      • Beals January 25, 2017 / 2:38 pm

        No, if you heal for 1000 (crit, normal is 500), your crit portion is 500.
        So 500*10% is 50 (extra).
        You will heal for 1050.

        Like

      • Dreamguard January 25, 2017 / 5:38 pm

        Beals is correct. The key difference is the wording on the cloak; it says that it increases the “critical effect” and not just “critical healing”.

        Like

    • Dreamguard January 25, 2017 / 5:41 pm

      They are actually very different. 2-piece is specifically 5% more crit to Holy Shock (which ends up being doubled, so it’s kind of like an additional 10%), and the cloak is 10% more to your critical healing effects.

      Like Beals mentions above, if you normally heal for 500 and you crit for 1000, the cloak increases the critical effect (500) by 10%, so your total heal is 1050.

      Like

  18. Joel William Male January 25, 2017 / 2:36 am

    When do you plan on updating the trinkets to 940 ilvl? I have a 940 Velens 😦

    Love the spreadsheet!

    Like

    • Joel William Male January 25, 2017 / 2:38 am

      As in making 940 selectable when putting your trinkets into the spreadsheet. I can see it has 940 in the Trinkets sheet, just not on the home page. Thanks again!

      Like

    • Dreamguard January 25, 2017 / 8:50 am

      It’s been updated since this morning. 🙂

      Like

  19. cremor January 28, 2017 / 10:14 am

    Small note about the spreadsheet: Since one of the latest updates, I think it was the one for the trinket hotfixes, one of the comments for the trinket values is duplicated on two trinkets.

    Like

  20. Sunshine February 2, 2017 / 7:33 am

    Hey Dreamguards,

    I need some clarification about Velen’s Future Sight. When I saw it’s value on the spreadsheet, I really thought that this is a killer trinket. Yesterday I got it and tried it on Star Augur and with 4 uses throughout the fight, it did 2.83m healing in total. That is way below of what my legendary shoulders and necklace do.
    Am I missing a point about this trinket? Am I using it wrong (should I use it on cd even if there is no damage flying around)? Because so far I am a bit disappointed :/

    Like

    • Dreamguard February 2, 2017 / 8:29 am

      First, Star Augur is a fairly easy fight to heal. There isn’t a ton of damage for you to heal so it may look worse if you’re just comparing it to that one fight.

      Regardless, the huge draw to the trinket is the fact that it’s a very high item level stat stick. That value isn’t going to show up on meters like the shoulders or neck will. If you already have really good trinkets, then maybe it’s not better than shoulders/neck.

      The on-use effect is nice, but it’s not amazing.

      Like

      • Sunshine February 2, 2017 / 9:43 am

        Well at the moment I have the following items: Legendary shoulders, necklace, belt and trinket.
        Trinkets: Velen’s Future Sight, Darkmoon Deck: Hellfire (865 ilvl), Unstable Arcanocrystal (870 ilvl+Leech) and Perfectly Preserved Cake (895 ilvl).
        So in your opinion, which legendaries and trinkets should I use?

        Like

      • Dreamguard February 2, 2017 / 10:36 am

        Jesus, you’ve had some pretty good luck.

        I would for sure use the Arcanocrystal at all times. I would also always use shoulders, then it’s up to you as to whether or not you wanna use Velens or Neck/Cake.

        More than likely Velens is your best option, but I don’t think that’s a cut-and-dry answer. It might depend on the boss. None of your options are bad though. DMD:Hellfire is probably a little out-classed at this point, but it’s still not bad.

        Like

      • Sunshine February 2, 2017 / 11:15 am

        That’s what I was leaning towards as well – shoulders and velen’s with arcanocrystal 🙂 Thanks a lot for your answers!

        Like

  21. Ashty - Garona February 3, 2017 / 2:54 pm

    Looking at the spreadsheet, the inital weights you have there in player stats, is that sort of a guideline to shoot for? And by that i mean that crit/haste/mastery stats. Since I have been loading my items in there, i have noticed a decline in crit and haste/mastery coming up more. I personally have noticed my self becoming less effective in raid and going oom quite faster. Perhaps i should stack a little more crit?

    Now I know logs will help this, and with that is a grain of salt since we are 4 healing normals at the moment, and there tends to be a tad bit more overheal there. I also instead if healing will just dps and watch things since the other 3 are picking things up and not much going on.

    Overall i guess my question is, if i feel im going oom should i be less haste? my current haste is at 7453, where the initial spreadsheet shows 5000, show i scale that back a bit to help out?

    Like

    • Ashty - Garona February 6, 2017 / 6:04 pm

      Hello?

      Like

    • Beals February 7, 2017 / 11:04 am

      Dreamguard, correct me if i am wrong, but the spreadsheet not covers the negative scaling between haste and mana, but shows haste weight based on HPS.

      For calcultion of your stats weights, the spreadsheet covers not only your stats, but also a lot of things like your tier-set bonuses, Mastery eficiency, where you spend your IoL procs and so on.

      Check out your logs to find out your heal characteristics. The Paladin Discord also have a huge amount of resources which are useful for that.

      https://discord.gg/npC6v

      Like

    • Kurjak February 9, 2017 / 9:36 am

      Same here. I never used to have mana issues, but since when I started stacking up haste and reducing crit, I’m also running OOM in almost every fight.
      It’s also my fault, I could probably have a better mana efficiency, but the difference is really big. Honestly, I think I could perform better with the previous build (crit>vers>mastery>haste)…

      Like

  22. Candiicaane February 13, 2017 / 4:25 pm

    Hello!

    I absolutely love this spreadsheet and all the work you have put into it!

    My boyfriend is actually pretty jealous that I found this!
    Do you know of anyone else who does these spreadsheets or if there is any for Blood or Unholy DKs?

    Thanks!

    Like

    • Dreamguard February 13, 2017 / 6:30 pm

      Thanks for the kind words 🙂

      I’m not entirely sure if there is one for DKs, but he should check out the DK Discord, I’m sure there are resources for him to use there.

      Liked by 1 person

  23. Aldar February 16, 2017 / 6:22 pm

    Hi Dreamguard, just found a few weeks ago your spreadsheet and it’s helping me a lot since then. Thanks for your work.

    I’ve never be to lucky with loots (maybe i’m wrong) but after more than 3 month doing high mythic+, all dayly chests and doing every week the f* damm lfr besides normal guild raids, i finally got my 4th legendary today (still 4th yeah!), and it became our love Maraad’s Dying Breath ¬¬

    My other legendaries are: bracers, sephuz and Judgment ring (yeah at least one nice legendary!), For the time being i have been using uther’s guard and ring.

    Is there any situation where i could choose between other legends (Obviating the item by which to replace the legendary). The legendary cloak seems to be usefull only on mythic+ with BoV for me.

    i’m partially or totally wrong with my assumptions??

    PD: I have drape of Shame 855, 37% crit with actual gear, 4 tier pieces (2 normal, 2 heroic) with best epic items lvl for the normal tier pieces.

    Like

  24. Scott S March 2, 2017 / 2:12 pm

    can you add your amazingness to a fury warrior spreadsheet 😄

    love the palain spread has helped me be a raid healer and not completely fail 😀 ty

    Like

  25. Eva March 4, 2017 / 11:31 am

    Hey,

    So I have noticed in warcraftlogs that a lot of holy paladins are using Ethereal Urn (from Nightbane) but I don’t see this trinket in the list of your spreadsheet? Does that mean that it’s not even worth considering or that it was just forgotten?

    Like

    • Dreamguard March 4, 2017 / 6:47 pm

      Ethereal Urn is the same as an Int + Mastery trinket in the spreadsheet. 🙂

      Like

  26. Eva March 5, 2017 / 11:44 am

    Oh right, didn’t think about that, oops…Thanks 🙂

    Like

  27. Eurydiche March 20, 2017 / 6:56 am

    Hello there. I’m at 41% crit and i use Mark of the claw neck enchants so when it procs i’m at 45% (with food buff). Should i stack higher crit and use trained sholdier instead (although i’m at 44% mastery) or leave it as it is. My way of thinking was that since claw procs so much it would be fairly okay to just count it in and aim for different stats. Is that valid or i’ve been an idiot all that time?Also, i’m kinda low on intllect (42800 with flask) which is about 2-3k lower than other holadins of my ilvl. I;ve been thinking of replacing arcanocrystal with ethereal map(890) but since i’m already nearly capped on crit and my mastery is pretty high anyway, the only truly beneficial proc would be haste.Is it worth it? Or i’ll have to pray at the rng gods for legendary trinket?
    And lastly, my spell breakdown on loggs is fairly different than the spreadsheet so i’m not sure if i should modify the spreadsheet somehow or if i’m just playing wrong.

    Like

  28. Vancha March 27, 2017 / 8:15 am

    Hello!

    With the upcomming T20 p2/p4 and the DoS nerf from 10 to 5% crit healing, did you thought about switching out the Shoulders for Maraads+Itterendi as BiS-Leggos due the damage reduce of LotM and higher priority of LoD?

    What are your thoughts about it?

    Like

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